Curse

Mineria · Aug 27, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Problem is that there is nothing in the game design that offers any advantage of being in a player only party versus a H+H party.
If you have tried to be a raid leader for a 40 man party in a dungeon, and used an insane amount of time to reach the endboss to get the last piece of elite armor for everyone in your guild, you would know what makes the difference.
I wont like that in GW though, but just a little something, that would make player only partys more attractive, would be nice.

Lady Lozza · Aug 27, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

To be honest the idea of pugging it horrifies me. In 2.5 years I've had some very, very bad experiences in pugs - I've also had some horrible guild based experiences. (Please note these experiences were not had with the guild I'm currently in). But it has been the pugs in which I've been the "help hand" that have put me off the most. Mostly when I help, I play monk, so maybe some of you are already seeing the problems.

In my experience 60% of players don't listen, so statistically that's 5-6 team members in an 8 player team - unless you get lucky. People draw too much aggro, they don't let the tank tank, monks refuse to heal those who have been rude, or simply because they have randomly decided they don't like the player, the tank doesn't understand the concept of holding aggro, players don't kite - the list goes on. And the moment you suggest something that might improve team dynamics or help with the success of the mission someone rage quits.

Or it could be like my Ruins of Surmia experience, I'm helping a friend through and decided to take some pugs, only to have one player abuse me the whole time after I draw on the map showing which way and where the pop-ups are. The torrent of abuse started with "Don't think just because you're lvl20 you know more than us..." Followed soon after by "15k Armour doesn't mean you know how to play..." I'd suggested neither of these things were the case. But then there were things like, "My warrior farms solo outside Droks. He had FoW armour, which makes you a noob..."
Oh I didn't quit. I really, really wanted to. I didn't because I don't, but I did find something better to do when the same player decided I also had to help them through Nolani as well.

Spax · Aug 28, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I used to party up with Randoms and a good friend who introduced me to GW and it was great for a while. We tended to act as a monking pair and cover half the team each, it was a shame that it seamed only our monks got used as thats all were asked for.
We've had some great fun and a good laugh with random people but there has been a creeping rot setting in, it got to the point where over voice coms we'd be placing bets on the first person to leave.
Now my GW playing friend hasn't been on for a month as he's moved in to a house without a broadband enabled phone line and I played the entire GW:EN preview with henchies and newly aquired Heros (i don't have NF).

TBH the thing that puts me off the most now is the attitude of a great many players, I'd love to do the Sorrows Furnace missions but people only want to farm, I'd like to potter about the underworld but I have no idea what a barrager is, what a touch thingie is, hell, I dont even know what PUG stands for! The games gone abbreviation mad! Sorry that should be abbrv. mad

Usually when I ask I get an awful lot of unhelpful comments and the odd "noob" thrown at me, it's not really an atmosphere that breeds a sense of camaraderie.

william1975 · Aug 28, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

PUGS :- comprised of rude, beligerant and the downrite sensless, who usually do it their own way, which is usually the wrong way.

Heroes/Henchmen:- they dont shout at you when you **** up.

They usually do everything you want them too without asking you why (though i have noticed olias likes to aggro Jotun this weekend, or more precisely anything that moves)

They don't get hacked off when you decide to leave the game for 30 mins due to some crisis/meal/rest that you suddenly need to take

They come fully equiped and with decent build that tend to work

I gave up on pugs over a year ago, and on guilds 5 months ago, it seems to be the general way of the game now, I only play with others in PvP now, and that reminds me half the time of why i dont pug in PvE,

brian78wa · Aug 28, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinterSnowblind

I still PUG sometimes, usually when we have no idea how to complete a mission, or for those later missions were Heroes just aren't good enough, such as the Gate of Madness.

Heroes not good enough? I have gotten masters on EVERY mission in NF Tyria and Cantha on my assassin with only heroes and hench. I didnt pug any of them. And actually I find every mission easier with Heroes/Hench including GoM.

Frostblood · Aug 28, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth Lucien

2) I’ll actually be able to get into a group, because as we’re all aware, rangers/paras/mesmers/ritualists are just plain useless…

hmm, you've obviously never partyed with my paragon. EotN was one hell of a breeze :P

Yes, ever since NF came out, heroes have always outclassed pugs imo. I've completed every mission with heroes/henchies and have done exceedingly well in each. Only time I'll ever have another human party with me is if I'll ever need another person's heroes that may have the correct skills i need for a very effective party, a nearly invincible party if I'm on my paragon. I only really rely on about a handful of other people to ever party with if I feel the need for more effective vanquishing. Pugs are usually just outright unreliable, and whenever someone dies, they feel the need to blame/flame another person even though it never occurred to them to have any form of self-heals or to even wait for the rest of the party. Incompetence, immaturity, and impatience are what usually comes along with pugs and all of which i cannot stand to tolerate.

HKSdivision · Aug 28, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Heroes+Henchies > PuGs!

I can't stand people who go AFK in the middle of a mission and have some lame excuse like their phone rang or someone's at the door. Last week we had someone who went AFK and after we all died, he/she didn't respond to our messages so we left and went back to town than I got into a new group and guess what? This same person joined the party....catch my drift? Obviously they were there but didn't want to do any of the work so therefore this is why I never PuG anymore. Plus with H+H no one in the team argues or /ragequits in the middle of a quest or mission.

Winterclaw · Aug 28, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Here's something I haven't seen touched on too much yet: PUGs take a long time to set up usually. Even for a mission with people looking for a PUG you are going to be spending at least as much time trying to find a group or get that one last human monk as you are going to spend in the mission.

So lots of time plus unpredictable results means fewer PUGs for me.

It'd be nice if I could take 7 heros into HA so I could work on my title a little... I'd probably do just as poorly as I normally do there.

While I'm wishing, it'd also be nice if there was a PUG title you simply couldn't grind your way through but had to play well in a PUG to get... that'd make things more predictable at least.

Magnus_1 · Aug 28, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I really prefer playing with other people (even if they are merely competent), but the number of idiots who will draw male genitalia on the map during the entire time they are in your party, rush headlong into mobs without any semblance of strategy, ignore directions, etc., etc. makes me somewhat glad that there are heroes and henchmen.

So basically, I have mixed feelings. Back in the day, before heroes and improved henchmen AI, PUGs were the way to go, and more often than not most PUGs were good enough to get the job done. There were a few that were amazing, everyone got along well and had great chemistry. There were also a few that crashed and burned. You take the good with the bad. For me, I would still rather play in a PUG than with H + H.

Winterclaw · Aug 28, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

but the number of idiots who will draw male genitalia on the map during the entire time they are in your party

I hate people that misuse the map; I was doing a mission the other day and someone drew so may scribbles I couldn't see through them. The ones that draw obsecne stuff are worse because you never know who it is.

Molock · Aug 28, 2007, 02:22 AM // 02:22

I joined many competent PuG's this week-end and we completed many quests, my favorite being the not so hard ''masters difficulty'' Cold Vengance. That was really an awesome dungeon =D

HolyHawk · Aug 28, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Those mini-map artists wannabes should just die; in general I don't pug because I can pve with a friend or 2, and heroes are quicker to be set than finding people, but I still always pug for fow, and I do understand why some people don't like to pug. When people are asked to ping their bars, I kinda think it's better this way, because you get the chance to correct a few skills that might not be good for the group, and prevent some serious mistakes (blinding flash on a monk bar, ranger minion master, warrior with ether feast, and so on). And let's face it, there are still a lot of new players there, a lot of unexperienced players, and yeah, some sucky ones as well. Another reason I don't pug often is that some people would rather have a third nuker than a mesmer.

vaxmor · Aug 28, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I did Cold Vengeance in a PuG, the monks entered into the dungeon at 15% and 30% DP. . .about 2minutes into the dungeon both monks were at 60% DP. . .then things got worse.

MO/N monks were packing BR and Well of Power as elite.

As is oft quoted, every time a W/MO used Mending; he just pile drived another nail into the PuG coffin.

anonymous · Aug 28, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Heros and Hench > majority of players. If I want a conversation I will talk with my guildies on vent.

cellardweller · Aug 28, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I'll give the same response I always do when this topic come up - Just because people aren't playing with you, it doesn't mean they're not playing with each other.

Find yourself a social guild and you'll always have people to play with.

Komradkyle · Aug 28, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

heroes don't quit get your benefit from titles, don't call you a noob, etc but its more boring being alone.

DDryss · Aug 28, 2007, 07:05 AM // 07:05

With 2 months i didn't play, I still have more than 4000 hours playing time.

First of all, the reason why people play with hero's/hench, is basiclly their Ego.

MG guys its a game, some are new, some are experrienced....but we all had to learn.

A game is made to enyoi..not to pick on people or calling them names...There are no dumb people, only less experienced. The only dumb people are those with them attitude.

I've beaten all ofthe three games now. Wel, most of the time I help people who are alone and ignored with their quests or missions...just for fun. And for me thier gratittude is much more rewarding then, showing off with titles (autofarmed), or a leeched Fow.

I remember a time where people sat down in a cicle, for hours, in Lion Arch having fun, telling jokes,......Thats all over.

All i hear now in towns is , WTS, WTB, 100k 30 ecto's, ....Noob, go with the hench...I'll report ye...recruting....Pro-runner, pro farmer(omg)

Is that having fun?...

Everone makes mistakes, even the best.And even if you think your the best,remember, you are playing a game.Its not a crappy job.

I have a daughter of 10 who has her own account, she play's for more then a year now; beaten all three games.
With her assasin she does allot AB, wel ,...most of the time she kickes all those pro's to the four corners of the map.

So in the future beware of child assas.....

Pwny Ride · Aug 28, 2007, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Directed at the original post~

For something such as a preview weekend, with such limited time alot of people have, i have no intentions of partying with anyone who will hinder me in any way shape or form. This may change for me when the game is fully released, but most likely not.

There is just a surplus of totally clueless people now (i mean come on, look at all the festivals and those questions

).

Patrick Smit · Aug 28, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote: